So the civil rights of transgendered folks may well be tested in Peabody. At the Roundtable, we have been following this story underground for a week or so, waiting to see if it surfaced in the mainstream media, which it finally has.
Salem News: Transgender club alleges discrimination
Salem News: Transgender group, restaurant agree to mediation
Peabody Weekly News: Transgender club, Capone's enter talks
Predictably, there's the usual round of redneck misogynistic commentary at the local rag. So sad: we like to think we live in a more enlightened Commonwealth, but of course (as the recent senate elections tell us) some of us live in a Roundtable fantasy world. The symbolism of "mah gud ol' pick-up truck" trumps high-end college degrees any day of the week. Apparently we prefer (collectively) to be governed by the less-educated.
Nevertheless: Do people have the right to enter and buy food/beverages at public establishments, regardless of their dress? That is, to what degree is dress (as a means of establishing conformance with gender norms) a criterion for admittance?
Discuss amongst yourselves. I'll check back...
Farewell Dark City....
11 years ago
18 comments:
I read this yesterday and what a great story. Not sure what brought me more entertainment, the story or the comments. Both were fantastic!
People are afraid of what they don't know or understand. As you so eloquently put it; people like their pick-up trucks, budweiser, and mcdonalds. Anything outside of that is foreign to them and should be shunned.
I'm sure these "women" will get the hint on where they are wanted vs. not-wanted and make the right decision. It sounds like they were first welcomed, but then shunned. I'm sure a couple more times of getting the cold shoulder and they would have went somewhere else. Its too bad it had to come this far.
My issue with this is, in all seriousness, what bathroom do they use?
Is it more appropriate for them to be in the men's room dressed as women or being a biological man in the women's room?
I really would like honest input so please do not suggest a transgender room...as Capone's does not offer such accomodations.
While I do believe what happened here is blatant discrimination...I am intrigued by the "they didn't look like their IDs" argument. A liqour store won't even sell you booze if there is any question of your age/valid ID: shouldn't these establishments be held to the same standard? How should this be enforced without offending anyone?
I feel this is a valid concern that needs to be addressed...otherwise we will be opening the door for underage drinkers in bars and underage teenagers in clubs.
The final question that I have is; how is this different than any club in Boston where the bouncer only lets in the cute young girls? Couldn't this be considered gender discrimination as well?
I hope Capone's smartens up and offers some kind of public apology...but I won't hold my breath.
What I'm going to say here isn't to confuse or amuse the reader. Why not ask the licensing board and Capones to ask the Boston clubs who do and do not accept patrons of those described in this latest controversy about bathroom use. While at it ask how they manage to prevent them from entering their establishments. Personally I'd be rather uncomfortable to see a woman real or not in the mens room
I hate to say it...but maybe you guys (NC, PI) need to start commenting on "that other blog" so people know you are still around...
A topic like this should be illicting tons of discussion and comments.
Please bring this blog back to life!
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You sure your in college?
I believe the problem is with what bathroom they should use. Personaly I believe that the the world is truely going crazy. This trans gender stuff is taking our freedoms way to far. Men dolling up like girls is just wrong. I believe in civil rights and I will say whatever turns you, on but this stuff is so borderline.
Really, Anon 2:55, I haven't the faintest idea in the world how men dressed as women take away YOUR freedoms! Maybe I missed the part in the Bill of Rights where it says that you can't use a men's room unless you are dressed like a man (whatever THAT means). Does this mean that if I am a woman, and dressed in trousers and a tie, I can/should use the mens room? Is that, for you, a preferable alternative to men dressed in skirts?
And thanks for the encouragement Anon 8:14, but, you know, the "other blog" isn't really my cup of tea. Playground-style name-calling? Unsubstantiated rumors? Restaurant reviews??! Egads: what is this??
Get in the game, TT. Readers, you can expect a higher standard here, even if we blog seldom.
Needham's Corner ... Boy do you need to go to Needham to live! A mens room and womens room aren't for use because of what either is wearing . If you haven't noticed there is a definite difference of body parts between the sexes. Unless your born with both then its a decision one would have to make in correcting or deciding how and where the voiding bodily functions are to take place. All you seem to be doing is adding fuel to the fire of gender recognition to further this debate . I'm a man and use the mens room except at home where it is used by both sexes. Get a life!!
Wake up Anon (February 21, 2010 7:29 AM), what is going on here isn't a question of how one is dressed. The issue is that these men, dressed as women, want to be able to use the LADIES room to do their business. That is wrong. The real women would - or at least should - be uncomfortable with men using their facilities. However, there are also many men who would be just as uncomfortable with these fake women using the men's room. There is also a very likely situation that could occur with a so-called "macho" man taking offense and assaulting these she-males for using "his" bathroom. This "proves" his manhood to himself and his buddies. Though if a man who plays the bagpipes walked into the men's room while wearing a kilt, or a Middle-Easterner wearing a robe did the same, this "macho" man would not have any issue with them. Strange, huh? This would be the same man who would attack a man because he is a homosexual. It's all fear-based bigotry and although it has no place in this world it is nontheless, here and not going to go away. From what I understand in the article, the real issue was that these fake women had ID's which pictured them as the men they really are and didn't look anything like them dressed as a woman. In this age of fake ID's and bars unwittingly partonizing underaged people, this doesn't seem too unreasonable to refuse entry to someone wearing a "disguise". Who knows who they really are?
Whogaf , What I was trying to get across is that no matter how you dress you are either a male or a female. Early on I suggested that Capones and the liquor board look into how the Boston bars handle the situation. Do you remember the "Apple" on route one ? How did the male and female impersonators , cross dressers and homosexuals , etc. answer the call of nature. If they did go to the rest room it was tolerated by those who frequented the bar, straight or not. As an old timer I can't remember any news story of police /state troopers answering calls of a real man or woman in the opposite sex rest room of the "Apple". They did answer to fights or unwanted parties in the bar. If you go to these places [I don't} then it shouldn't bother you whether they do or not. I do not agree with these people going into a straight bar and causing any "problems", as it were, when they can go to the places that cater to their life styles. The one thing you and I can agree on is that there will be people who will have gender issues up to the end of time. Hell, it took place in ancient Rome and Greece before our so called modern times. I don't agree with their life styles but there is a place for them and its among their own kind[s]in designated places of their own . How many of our past/ present political leaders and those of the too many arts to list, are known to be of their life style ? In the short of it all we have to coexist with one anothers life styles like it or not.
OG says..
do any of you actually know or work with transgenders?? I suspect not...but guess what ? OG does...so maybe I can enlighten you all a bit....
OG, To answer your question I do know one that has grown into a productive working member of society. Why not enlighten everyone with your knowledge of transgenders you work with. side note: How come its taken so long for any commentary by you or others on this subject since the 22nd of February? I am almost sure you read the Peabody blogs daily and do have a lot to say on what is written on them at an approximate three days a week on average.
December 12:
" I was asked if I planned on "Closing Shop" or "Throwing in the Towel." Well, no actually. If I were to decide that bloging wasn't for me any longer, I would write a post saying so and then stop. I certainly wouldn't just disappear... I frankly find that incredibly insulting to the people who read and participate." --PI
Well, PI, I think its time for you to live up to your word and at least write a farewell post..
OG , In regards to your March 3rd @ 1045pm statement it is now March 17th and you haven't written any thing about your knowledge of and the working with the transgendered. Please enlighten us as you said you would..
Hello, McFly! Anybody home??? Looks like this site is officially dead. Why not just shut it down.
Must be time to close the site. Look at the last three anons and decide for your selves .They cant stay on the subject. Besides that, the anon. writer of 3/17 @ 11:26 says it all. The blog says it is been two weeks with no responses to the subject matter.
Anon March 7 has it right...PI you are a HACK!
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